Ep 10

[00:00:00] Well, I'll tell you guys what I told somebody the other day is that in the end, whatever creative thing that it is that you want to do, or you know, how it, however it is that you want to like express yourself. If it's, if it's done in a way for business, or if it's done, it was a way of just like, you know, personal creative, The only person that is, that is stopping you or that can effectively stop you, is yourself.

[00:00:25] Welcome to the clueless creatives podcast. I'm your host, Mike Kvick. And I believe you deserve to thrive in your creative journey and that you don't have to settle and be another clueless creative doing this all alone. And that's what the cluesless creatives is all about. It's a community banding together eager to learn, to listen and to live out their creative dream.

[00:00:45] We'll pull back the curtain on my personal creative journey, which ad business mindset and motivation have some laughs and together, well, we'll figure this whole thing out. I'm so glad you're listening. Let's get started.[00:01:00] 

[00:01:02] Welcome to the clueless creatives podcast, where we believe that you deserve to thrive in your creative journey. We pull back the curtain on creativity. It was pretty good. It's pretty good. I'm impressed. I don't remember the rest. I'm Danielle Kovic and I am with the clueless creative himself. Mike Kvick in this takeover episode.

[00:01:30] Hello, Mike. Hello? Hello, darling. How's the creative. I don't need to know where to start. You're just jumping right into the questions. I actually realize that I don't have the notes in front of me. Yeah. So as Danielle said, this is a takeover episode. She's going to be, she's going to be running the show.

[00:01:51] She's going to be asking you the questions. It's gonna be really interesting because now I get to be on the receiving side of the bombardment of questions and inquiries. [00:02:00] And yeah, I'm excited for this. This is gonna be good. It's gonna be interesting. I think so too. So Michael, how do we know each other?

[00:02:10] Sorry, Mike. So Mike, how do we know each other? A little background story. Danielle doesn't actually ever call me Mike, because, uh, yeah, when we started dating, I was very much into just being called Michael. You were never called my growing up. I, I don't actually know anybody that called me, just, just Mike.

[00:02:37] I mean, my mom called me Mikey, but that's a whole different, anyone asked you, is it Mike or Michael? You're always like it's Michael. Yeah. And then I guess, I guess that'll happen when, uh, when moved to Canada and people would ask me my name and I'm like, that's Michael, I'm going to call him Mike. Nice to meet you.

[00:02:54] I'm going to no, it's Michael. I just said that. And then eventually I just gave up along the road and I'm like, okay, [00:03:00] I can get on board with this whole mic train. I still can't. At least not for me. It's weird. Yeah. Well, cheers. My wife to cheers. Clink made some very delicious Malibu sunrises. Wonderful.

[00:03:20] Yeah. Okay. So, sorry time,

[00:03:26] I sent her over the notes for this episode. I've just like the basic structure that I follow. And with every single person that I start off with, it's like, okay, we got to establish the, the individual, the character and stuff like that. And so, um, on the notes that just says, Storytime, who are you? What is the essence of Mike?

[00:03:46] The essence of mine sounds like a really, really bad like cologne or BEO either. Or do you want to share how we met? Have we shared how we met? I think, I think we've shared it, but if not, [00:04:00] we can always just say it again. I'm I'm totally cool sharing. I like sharing our love story or love story. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:04:07] Actually, I don't know if we've shared that part, but very early into our college, um, life college career, I guess. Um, I noticed that Michael was. You're ruining, you're ruining waste story. I won't mix the drink. I realized that, okay. Early into our college life college career, I recognized that Michael was following me around at this particular conference.

[00:04:43] We had to go to sound like I'm a stock or something, but I think it was just more like I was friendly to him. And so he's like, I'm going to hang around with these people. I don't know. But anyway, she was nice to me. Every time I turned around, Michael was there and I'm like, oh, hi. So [00:05:00] anyway, it was like a whole day thing that we were gone to this conference.

[00:05:04] And every time I turned around, Michael seemed to be there. And then at the very end of the day, we got on the bus. And, uh, I was already sitting and Michael came and I don't know, I don't think he recognized, but he sat in the seat right in front of me for like the fourth time that day it was seemingly like he had followed me and secretly sat beside me.

[00:05:30] It was destiny, my dear. And I look at him and I'm like, oh hi. And the first thing Michael says is, you know, it's you again? I was so charming. So charming. That's one of my first vivid memories. But somehow after that we became friends. We had a good talk on the bus. We had a great chat and then. Pretty much inseparable after that, even though you insulted, I'm [00:06:00] so sorry, she's holding onto this for so many years, so many years now.

[00:06:03] Yeah. So we, we met in college, like Danielle said and, um, yeah, I mean, in college I didn't have that many connections or that many like friendships. And so I happily spent the majority of my time with Danielle and that quickly developed into intuitive love. So cute. Yeah. Then three years later we got married and the rest is history.

[00:06:27] Yeah. So on this journey, we've been married for over eight years now. What, what was our lives or careers? Like when we first got married? I love this question because it's actually like, I mean, both of us weren't, I mean, you were kind of doing what you, where you're leaning into now, but like I had nothing, I didn't really have a creative bone at that point in time.

[00:06:51] Well, I mean, I've played. But apart from, sorry, I played bass guitar in bands and stuff like that. And like in our [00:07:00] school and our church and stuff like that. Um, but I mean, from a creative side point by point from a creative side, there we go from a creative side of photography, videography storytelling, stuff like that.

[00:07:11] I didn't actually ever think of pursuing it as any sort of career option or anything like that. And, uh, and yeah, so like, I mean, we worked in care homes for that cared for, for clients, with autism and high behaviors and medical issues and stuff like that. It was a big, big organization that had me like a couple different like group homes and stuff like that, and then individual homes.

[00:07:34] Um, and I mean, I absolutely loved the job. It was very stressful. It was very challenging. Yeah. I learned a lot, but it was a very stressful job. I thought it was. I, I think what it really taught me in the end is just having, um, I dunno, like a, just a, just a healthy. Perspective on life in general. And I mean, I, yeah, I had lots of [00:08:00] like, you know, small little like scary incidences and stuff like that that had happened or stuff that was stressful.

[00:08:05] But in the end it gave me also a lot of confidence in how to hold myself, how to communicate to other people. And yeah, just to, I mean, even when you're stressed, how to show love and how to show care and compassion for people, it's, it's definitely a lot of fun. Yeah. Really, really tough work, but also very rewarding, uh, to see the change that, that could come when you help people lovingly and instill change and believe in them.

[00:08:38] Really? Yeah. So after the care homes, what did you move in? Uh, we moved to Northern Canada. We moved to Northern. Yeah, very literally like middle of nowhere. Um, but I worked security for six, seven months [00:09:00] or something like that. And when I say that it was a, well, maybe it's not my least favorite job, but it was second.

[00:09:08] At least it was a very, uh, uninspiring job. And like, not to shame anybody that's security guards or anything like that, it just was not like the place that I was, what I was doing, all that kind of stuff. It was not my cup of tea at all. I kind of felt like you were being a babysitter for grown adults cannot manage themselves.

[00:09:31] Well, like, cause it was, it was security out in an oil site. And um, and when I, when I worked at the gates and stuff like that, that was usually not much of an issue. It was very straightforward. It's just like any. Bordering security guard type thing. Um, but then I moved into the camps where it was essentially dorm type living for, you know, anywhere between a thousand to 4,000 people.

[00:09:55] And on any given evening, if you were working the night shift, you'd be, it'd be [00:10:00] called because of this noise complaints or that noise complaint or these drunken people or whatever. And so it was like, and you had to be like, always like on the ball with stuff. And they have very, very strict like regulations when it comes to, uh, working and blood, blood, alcohol level and stuff like that.

[00:10:15] And so then if we caught people at like about three o'clock in the morning that were intoxicated, walking out and about, you know, in, in the, in the space or whatever, I mean, they have every right to technically, um, but then we would, we would blacklist their cards. So then they'd have to come to us in order to actually get out of the, the campus area.

[00:10:34] And then we'd, we'd just tell them like, okay, well, Now that you're awake, you have to go back to your dorm and wait for your managers to come, or your supervisor, and you have to go do a alcohol and drug test. And so like, and then they're always complaining about they're always, you know, it was just a lot of unnecessary man drunk, I think for you too, is you like to see the best in people, but working [00:11:00] insecurity, you were always on call to see the worst.

[00:11:04] And so that's like very de-motivating as Nope.

[00:11:13] I'm good. I'm good with English. I promise she's the one that's in her master's degree. Oh, too much writing anyway. Um, but yeah, that can be so unmotivating when you're constantly just seeing the worst side of like people and especially when you like to believe in, in the best in people. That was definitely not your calling that and yeah.

[00:11:36] And like that the working hours were terrible. Cause it was, uh, it was 12 hour shifts and then the journey by bus there and back was like an hour long ish. And so like, I didn't have much of a life. And so, and you were getting constantly sick. Like every time you switched to night shift, it was like your body just shut down and was like, Nope, my body on night shift do not go.

[00:11:57] You had like strep throat three times that [00:12:00] year. Yeah. But I think after that, after you realized that that was not your life calling, that's when you started to step into more of a creative role and more what you're doing now, that kind of your next position sparked and fuel that. Tell me more about that.

[00:12:21] Yeah. So I actually there's, I worked in the school for like six months after that or so, but then that was quickly. Put on a very prolonged hold because of a wildfire in their city. So then, then we evacuated. We, when I came back, I ended up taking this job as a, started off as a, as a media director in tech, uh, media director and administrative assistant in the church and the city that we lived in.

[00:12:48] I mean, I didn't have very much experience in videography or photography specifically, or like designer stuff, but, um, I mean they, they deemed it that I was well enough equipped to be able to [00:13:00] at least start something and start developing something. And they didn't have a huge set up before that or any sort of like structure necessarily in that, in that realm of things.

[00:13:09] Um, yeah. And so I did that for, I was just under two years. And then by the end, I was like, you know what, I want to branch out. And I want to try this whole photography thing and see what this world has to hold for me. And so I, I ended up going back to, uh, to work at the school. So I was only working 30 hours a week and I'd have the summers off and like, you know, all the basic holidays off.

[00:13:31] And then I, I would just work in the evening doing photography work for, for clients or, um, yeah, so I started off with like concert photography. I really liked that for a long time as a lot of fun. Um, it's just, it's a challenge to make it a sustainable income if you're not, uh, if you're not into the touring life, um, which I could do in little spurts, but at the same time, like it's also not my, my, my go-to or my, my drive for it.

[00:13:57] So, yeah. And, uh, [00:14:00] And that's really when everything, my, my life got derailed by creativity. So it's true because when we first met this, like was not even on the radar, even when we first got married, like if you had told me when we first got married, that you would go into like videography and like a creative journey and start your own business in this field.

[00:14:22] I not sure I would have believed that. I don't think you really picked up a camera seriously to start, uh, learning how to do photography and editing probably until 2016. I think it was after the fire and your brothers came to visit us, we went hiking and it kind of sparked your passion for photography then.

[00:14:48] Yeah. And more than anything, it was like, you know, it really piqued my interest because then figuring out the best way to. To document something or to show something. And I mean, when I first [00:15:00] got started, like the images are just, you know, it's just like anybody taking any sort of a quick image with their phone or anything like that.

[00:15:06] There's no, I mean, when it comes to composition or anything like that or style or whatever, it was definitely not my, um, uh, my best work, but yeah, it's all, it was all part of it. And I really enjoyed the process of just trying to get better at it. And I was definitely not one of those people that like picked up a camera.

[00:15:24] I was like, oh, you've got such a great high for photography. You are so amazing. It's a lot of the creative stuff for me when it comes to like the hands-on creativity stuff is not something that just comes easily. And to like refine my skill to a point where I can, you know, now consider myself a professional at that.

[00:15:46] It took me a long time and it was not, it wasn't, it was something that was. You know, with that comes a lot of self doubt and, and, you know, going through this whole cycle of trying to get better at it and working and watching content to try to [00:16:00] learn, and then actually just having the guts to go out and do that kind of stuff.

[00:16:03] And yeah, I mean it, yeah, it took, it took a long time. What do you think was the turning point for you where you were at a point that you're like, yeah, I can see myself doing something like this as my job. When did it go from passion to, or hobby, I guess, hobby to career? Yeah. I mean, when I think it was probably when I got my first paid, um, concert shoot, actually, maybe like, I mean the first concert that, or first two that I, that I shot or.

[00:16:45] I did them for free. And, uh, I was just like, I just kinda want like a media pass and get to do some photos. And it ended up being in that absolutely. Like the second one, especially was just this amazing opportunity of this whole day country music festival in Fort Mac. And [00:17:00] it was really cool because at the end I could see the end result and the quality of the images and stuff.

[00:17:04] Like I'm like, okay, like, I'm actually like, you know, I'm actually competent with those. I can do this. Um, and so that really was for me, a turning point of, I guess, like the intrigue notch went up a little bit and I'm like, okay, like I could, I could learn how to do this better. I can learn how to do this more effectively.

[00:17:22] Um, and, and, you know, see if I can turn this into some sort of, you know, full-time employment or even just a part-time employment. Um, but even at that, I never, at that point in time, I never actually really considered myself like a professional in it. It was just something that I was doing on the side. It was kind of like my side hustle and, uh, I, I think it was.

[00:17:44] It was, it was once we, once we moved here and I started trying to set something up here in Austria, that I was like, okay, like I actually have to start explaining or describing myself as a professional in the site. I can't just say I'm just doing this on the side, because I'm actually like actively pursuing this as a, as a [00:18:00] career in life, as a profession in life.

[00:18:03] And in that, yeah. Then, then I ended up having to be more. More serious to myself and being like, yeah, like if somebody asks me, oh, what do I do for work? Um, you know, when we first moved here, I was like, oh, well, I work, part-time in a, in an ad agency in marketing. And then I, you know, doing like photography videography on the side.

[00:18:23] And when I started being able to tell people, I'm like, yeah, like I, uh, I'm, I'm trying, I'm building a business off of photography, videography, and creativity, and trying to end developing that. Um, and then on the side, I'm working this marketing job so that I can actually afford to live in August. That was really the turning point.

[00:18:42] When I started actually changing my language when it came to, uh, to my creative ability and my creative skill, she has to look at the questions. Step two,

[00:18:58] what is step two? [00:19:00] Danielle always says she's. I'm kind of envious of you speaking to me about how I can like, ask the right questions to like dig deeper and stuff like that. And so when it comes to like now with the podcast, if, if I'm hosting it, like I normally do, and I'm just like, I have somebody on it's, it's fairly easy.

[00:19:19] Cause I have this general structure in my, in my head of how I kind of want things to go. And then I just ask leading questions to get towards that point. And now it's interesting, just kind of sitting back and be like, huh, let's see how Danielle does with this now. Well, I would have kept asking questions in that direction, except for the fact that you have a little step one, step two, step three here for me.

[00:19:42] And I realized that I have deviated from your state. That's okay. You're forgiven. I'll still love you. I feel like I'm kind of on the right track though. Absolutely. We have established your career. We have established that you've been doing this for a long time. [00:20:00] What would you say is your creative idea?

[00:20:04] Yeah. I mean, when it comes to creativity and, and who I, like, I see myself as in, in all of this, in this whole world of creativity, it's, uh, it's more or less yeah. Helping, helping people, um, and myself tell, tell stories to, to make an impact in other people's lives, um, to encourage them and to push them into a, into a life lived wholly so completely, um, with passion authenticity.

[00:20:34] And I mean, I think that's part of my, my, my character as an individual, as well as that's kind of what I love doing is like encouraging people and helping people and leading people into, into effectively a better life, um, that they feel more passionate about that they feel more hopeful in. Um, and because in the end, like, I mean, you only have one life and if you, if [00:21:00] you end up getting yourself stuck into the.

[00:21:02] Cyclical life of, you know, something that you're not actually passionate about or something that you don't actually love doing, but you have to do because that's the way that you were taught or stuff like that. Like, I think my, uh, my drive in life in general is to help people have a different perspective and just to have a healthy perspective on, okay, what does life actually, like, what do you evaluate life to be?

[00:21:23] And what's the purpose of it all. And what's the value of it. And, um, yeah. So when it comes to creativity, that's like, I mean, that's the essence of what I strive towards or what I pushed for. Um, and in the meantime, like I just want to help tell stories that impact people's lives. Hence why I started this whole podcast.

[00:21:44] So is what we create an expression of who we are. Absolutely. I definitely would say that that's who we are, because I mean, uh, I think as, as creative people, we put our. [00:22:00] It's almost like we put our identity into what it is that we create. And that's why so many, um, creative people struggle with, with, uh, like feedback when it comes to quality of work or style of work or something like that.

[00:22:14] And, um, I mean, you can get away a little bit from it if you, um, if you, if you label what it is that you do as art, because then people understand it as an expression, an expression of who you are in that current time and place, it's more subjective. Yeah, exactly. Whereas if it's, you know, creative work, for example, like photography for clients, um, it's still part of, you know, they still have their expectations, a lot of stuff, but you, as a, as a creative are still putting your personality and your kind of your identity into it a little bit.

[00:22:48] And so I think, um, yeah, it's definitely a part of who you are and part of like your, your expression of yourself. What would you say to someone who is super passionate about [00:23:00] creativity and wants to launch into something, but just feels stuck and feels like a clueless creative? Well, I'll tell you guys what I told somebody the other day is that in the end, whatever creative thing that it is that you want to do, or, you know, how it, however it is that you want to like express yourself, if it's, if it's done in a way of, for business, or if it's done too, is a way of just like, you know, personal creativity, the only person that is that is stopping you, or that can effectively stop you, is yourself.

[00:23:35] Um, you have every capability and every possibility to create almost anything nowadays on, on a scale that is, you know, achievable by pretty much everybody. Um, and so, yeah, just the only person that is. That can possibly slow you down or like, or stop you from doing that kind of thing. Um, is yourself, [00:24:00] and in the end, it's just convincing the, the, the person controlling the brain that you, uh, that you're capable, that you're, that you're able, and that you are creative and it doesn't have to be perfect.

[00:24:13] It doesn't have to be, you know, it doesn't have to be top notch or high quality all the time. Um, but as soon as you start the ball rolling, and as soon as you start actually like acting out on your creativity and doing stuff, you'll find more and more fulfillment and passion in just the, the production side of things and like actually producing stuff and doing things rather than feeling like, okay, like I have to do this and it has to, you know, make me money or it has to, it has to look a certain way or anything like that.

[00:24:40] Like just do stuff because you love it. And not because of anything else that is. Like don't give yourself such harsh, uh, restrictions you speak from experience there. Yeah, for quite a while there, it was like, oh, you know, I need to get a paycheck. I need to make an income. And you [00:25:00] we've mentioned it in a previous episode, how you just lost your passion in it because you lost sight of what it was that you love to do.

[00:25:10] And when you began to do more like passion projects and, and things you enjoy doing, even if it wasn't for money, you became more interested in more rejuvenated, I guess, revived in your creative passions. Yeah. And I guess in the end, like your, your, your creativity, I think is something that is supposed to bring you life and bring you enjoyment in life.

[00:25:40] Um, and so if. If you're doing your creative thing, whatever that is, and you feel like you are it's de-motivating or it's demoralizing, or you're hypercritical of yourself or anything like that, um, don't necessarily reevaluate if you should do [00:26:00] that creative thing or not, but reevaluate how you're approaching it from, from your perspective and how you're evaluating, what it is that you're doing.

[00:26:09] And that's, that goes back to the whole do things, because you love it. Don't have to have such harsh expectations for yourself. And I mean, like even this podcast, like I had, I had some basic idea of like when I, what I wanted and how I wanted it to be in all kinds of stuff. Uh, but in the end, like I also just want to focus on, you know, actually doing it.

[00:26:31] And so if that means having to be okay with the audio, not being completely pristine or perfect, or, you know, Things not flowing a hundred percent, exactly how I would want it to or whatever I was like in the end done is better than perfect. And, um, and you can feel a lot, you'll feel a lot more accomplished when you just finally like do something rather than saying, oh, I, I want to always do this or I want to do this, or I'm interested in [00:27:00] this.

[00:27:00] Just do it. Like, no, like no pressure, no, no nothing. Just do it and enjoy it and see, see how it kind of goes. And so now, like even with this podcast now I'm to the point where I'm like, okay, I, I know how to do this, and I know how to do this fairly effectively with like, you know, repetition and with other people and how to kind of structure it and how to kind of go about doing it.

[00:27:21] And like the interviews are more easy, like to, to kind of flow with them. Um, and then even like when I'm doing episodes by myself, like I have like a basic idea in my mind of how, how I go about it. And so now I'm like, oh, Now, now that I can do this, like, this is sustainable. This is something that I can manage, you know, consistently what can I do else?

[00:27:43] That's kind of creative. And so it's like how this morning I was thinking of like, huh, maybe I should get into live streaming this podcast. And how do I do that? And how do, how do I do that with the least amount of effort, but with just a way to see, okay, [00:28:00] how is it going to be received? Because in the end with this podcast, it's all about putting the message out there and for people to be able to listen to it.

[00:28:07] And so, no matter what that medium looks like, like why not try it? And so I'm like, okay, I've got these like little like wireless mics that I can plug into my phone and just live stream straight from my phone. I'm like, oh, well maybe next time for the next episode, I can do that. And then just the audio form that is on young, on like Spotify and Google podcast and apple podcast.

[00:28:30] That, that would just then be the condensed form, um, with, you know, cut out some of the, the pauses or, you know, somebody has to get up and run to the bathroom or whatever, you know, um, all those little things and you have to cut out inaccurate information or inaccurate information. Those are the little things that I do just to help keep the flow and, you know, for stuff to make sense.

[00:28:52] The first couple episodes I cut out the ums and AHS, and now I'm just like, screw it. I don't have the time to do that [00:29:00] anymore. So I'm hearing that instead of striving for perfection, it's more like striving to be done and get something out that is like good. And you're proud of it, but it doesn't need to be perfect.

[00:29:14] And I think a lot of people who are really creative know, I know psychology that people who are really creative and artists. Tend to be more perfectionistic. And so, you know, people can really get down on themselves and don't don't release what they are doing because it's not up to their perfectionistic standard.

[00:29:39] Yeah. But I'm hearing that it's, you know, if you can get past that barrier of this, isn't perfect, but it's still good that just get it out there and, you know, you can learn from that more than just keeping [00:30:00] whatever you've created to yourself and no one ever seeing it. Yeah, exactly. And it's, it's all like, what's the, what's the intention behind it.

[00:30:07] And. Will you, will you fulfill that intention by making sure that it's perfect or will you fulfill that intention by actually just making stuff and continuing to do stuff? So like, I know that with this podcast, the more that I produce it, and the more that I like do it on a regular basis, the better it will be become, or I could sit here and be like, okay, I have to make sure that the, that the room is like sound damping and stuff like that.

[00:30:32] And like, I mean, like sure, you can hear like the cars driving in the background from our living room. Um, but it's like, and like the mix, they aren't always perfect. And same thing with like live streaming. It's like, I'm trying to find the most basic possibility with the tools that I have right now because of my work as a, as a videographer and the mikes and stuff like that, that I, that I have for.

[00:30:54] I'm like, what can I, what else can I use in order to make this, uh, a possibility? [00:31:00] So it's like, even with thinking, oh, well, like maybe I can have a podcast with like two or three people on it. And so then it's like four of us, how do I, how do I record that in a way with just the basic things that I have on like, oh, well, like I've got these small little mics and these other things, and I have alternatives in place.

[00:31:17] Uh, and it's like, it's not perfect. It's not, and it's not about being perfect. It's not about having the best quality of everything it's achieving to a certain level of quality that you're content with, um, an emphasis on content. It doesn't have to be like, you have to be a static about or something like that.

[00:31:37] Um, and then yeah, just doing it. Yeah. If you want to get out quality content more than quantity, but there is a certain point that consistency is just as important or more important than being a perfection. Yeah. Especially when it comes to a podcast. Yeah. Well, there's this, there's this really, really [00:32:00] interesting.

[00:32:00] Um, oh, I can't remember where I heard it from. Um, but it was this, this kind of experiment that they did in this, this art squad as a, as a photo school. And, um, the, I think it was, the professor had split the class into two different groups and one group was given the task of making the best image that, that was possible for that semester.

[00:32:18] And that's what they were graded off of. And then the other half were graded on a portfolio of images. And so they, he just said, create as many images as you want and as possible and create a portfolio out of it. And then that's how you're going to be graded and the inherent quality of image by image for those that took more images.

[00:32:40] And that's what they're graded off of their portfolio scored high. In, in, in their grade and evaluation based off, uh, um, compared to the people that only had the one piece that they had to focus on. Interesting. And it goes back to the whole yes, it's about quality, but it's also about like quantity in the [00:33:00] long run of the more that you do, the better you'll get at it.

[00:33:03] Yeah, exactly. So from a business standpoint, what are the qualities of a good creative entrepreneur? I think a lot of it is just communication and, um, how you communicate with clients or maybe, I mean, that would make the most sense now that I'm thinking. But yeah, like when, when you, when you get down to the nitty gritty of, of running a creative business, it's not necessarily about what it is that you produce or the quality that you produce it at, but it's how you communicate and how you.

[00:33:44] How you are portrayed to, to potential clients. Um, because when you, when you start running a business, there's always going to be somebody that is willing to hire you for your current quality of work. And so it comes down to then making sure that [00:34:00] your, that your communication helps you get the kind of clients that you want, or the kind of, kind of clients that you need.

[00:34:06] So the higher paying clients and all that kinda stuff. Um, so yeah, as, as, as like a creative business owner, you just, you have to be more business savvy than you do creative, but at the same time as successful entrepreneurs. And this is what we talked about with Jonathan too, is that you need to be a creative person in order to be a successful entrepreneur, because you're all about problem solving.

[00:34:29] And so you're always then solving problems for people. I think it would be good to talk about like how you've built your business, because. You know, you're pulling back the curtain of the creative journey. So what does that look like though? Like how did you get to this point? So here's your three-step guide.

[00:34:50] You're starting your creative business. It's probably way longer than one podcast episode. That online course will be released this summer for 1 99 [00:35:00] per month. Yeah, exactly. Um, get my course here. Yeah. My webinar, my free webinar. So giving away all your, you know, coaching tips and tricks, but like, I think people want the practical, they want to know how do I get to that point where I can make this an income?

[00:35:23] Yeah. I, I think, um, I mean, it's, it's kind of, it's a challenge for. When you like broad stroke, the creative is called like the creative industry, because some people in what it is that they create, it's exclusively like art oriented. And so it's not the way that you approach that then is different than how you would approach, you know, um, photography and videography for business and brands.

[00:35:48] And non-profits like what I do. Right. Um, but for myself, like the kind of the route that I went was I, I first had to figure out what it was that I was actually [00:36:00] passionate about. Like, why is it that this whole industry and like photography and videography is actually interesting to me. And, and when I started getting down to it, it was talking about, okay, like stories, like I'm, I'm obsessed with stories.

[00:36:13] I pest to that the only books Michael has picked up to read in like our entire. Relationship of me knowing Michael is how to create good stories. I was shocked when he started reading them. I was like, oh my goodness, you're reading a book much to her disappointment. It was not fiction. It was not fiction.

[00:36:36] That's okay. It was still great to note. We could go to a beach and you would listen to an audio book or read and not just feel like you're bored on the beach. Like you were our first year of marriage and we went to Mexico. You were so bored out on the beach. Well, I'm like nothing to do with so invested in the maze rudder.

[00:36:57] That's what I was reading at the time. And you [00:37:00] were just like, so bored. So now I like that you can just chill out with a book, even if it's about storytelling on the beach beach, vacations are much more appealing now, are they actually, yeah, they are a hundred percent. Um, yeah. For me when it came down to.

[00:37:20] So like when, uh, when I, when I worked at the church, one of the things that I had to do was, uh, they called them like testimonial videos. And so it's like, you know, how, how they became a Christian and their story behind that and that their transform transformation period. And it, it really intrigued me of how to, how to tell their story and how to capture the emotion behind it.

[00:37:45] And so when I, when I started then, like when I went ahead, quit that job and moved into trying to do something like on the side, like photography, uh, for concerts, I was like, okay, well, how does this actually translate? Because like, I could just take pictures of like, you know, of [00:38:00] people, um, on stage and stuff like that.

[00:38:02] And it's, it's interesting, but it's not intriguing. And so then I'm like, okay, what is it that I actually loved doing? And I love capturing moments of emotion, moments that, that convey an emotional or that are capturing animal. And that goes back to then story, because I want people to be intrigued by the things that I create and wanting to know more about.

[00:38:22] Okay. What's the story behind that. What's the purpose behind that? Um, and so, yeah, so once, once I kind of had that thread narrowed down, I'm more or less kind of through process of elimination and through a process of, okay, let's try a little bit of this and a little bit of that. Um, figuring out what it was that I actually wanted to do and, and what it is that I wanted to be essentially known for as a business and as a creative and yeah, it's, it's really, I, I think it's a very slow process.

[00:38:53] It's definitely not a very like, oh, here we go. Like, yeah, it's definitely not like a [00:39:00] one and done, or like a quick fix or anything like that. It's, uh, it's part of the creative journey of finding your own creative identity, but then also, how does that translate then into doing this. Like a full-time capacity.

[00:39:13] I mean, you can correct me if I'm wrong, but when you first started this and you first, um, like started taking photos of concerts and things like that, even though you were making money doing it, I don't think you set out with the purpose of, um, like making that your full-time income it's more or less once you started getting paid and you started getting more and more concerts, you started to realize, wow, I can actually do this as my job.

[00:39:45] Yeah. Someone will actually hire me for that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, from a creative side, it was just realizing that, okay, people actually see value in this and what it is that I can do as a, as an individual. And then the value that it brings their business or their [00:40:00] venue or. Right. So how did that then translate into videography and sharing stories?

[00:40:10] Yes. Pour your water. How did that translate into, uh, videos and telling stories for people? When, when did that come into play? Uh, it w it was always something that I was like ever since I worked at the church. Right. The, it was, I was very intrigued by it. Um, but then I also knew that I had to have a certain level of like, you know, production gear in order to actually make it in a way that I was happy with it.

[00:40:41] And, and once I started doing like the photo gigs and stuff like that, it's kinda like the same pattern that a lot of photographers go into that are interested in both is that once you start developing and like a portfolio of photos, you get to a point where you can actually like, afford to buy other gear.

[00:40:57] And then that kind of goes into, oh, well, [00:41:00] Maybe I can buy a couple of things that would be very good, like photo oriented stuff or sorry, video oriented stuff. And, um, yeah. And once, um, it was probably by the end of our time in Canada. So I ended up like 2019. I realized that and I mean, I was behind the times of course, but video is so much more vital to businesses and organizations now than ever has been.

[00:41:28] And when I, when I clued into that, I realized that there's not, there's not a lot, like in the grand scheme of things, there's not a lot of people that can do it and do it well. And so then I was like, okay, like let's set out and actually creating this into a way where I'm helping businesses, brands and organizations tell better stories and for the right reasons in, in, in ways that aren't just, you know, social media.

[00:41:54] Banger clips and stuff like that. Like, you know, like the cliche kind of images and videos that [00:42:00] you can kind of think of, but yeah, and it's a big process. It really is. And for me it took, it took a long time to get to the point where I was like, oh, like really stories is like the biggest thing that I'm interested in.

[00:42:15] Um, but yeah, it's, it's part of the process of falling in love with it. I know it sounds really cheesy, but that's really like what it is. It's when you start getting so fascinated and wrapped up into it and learning so much about it, then you start understanding or you start deciphering what it is that you love about it.

[00:42:35] And in the end, if, if I, if, if, if I had to choose like one job in the creative realm of things to do now, it would be, it'd be storytelling and. Whatever that medium would be. And I think that I would be contented with that. So like, even if somebody had to hire me, uh, and [00:43:00] write a blog, like I would still be content with that because it's still creative and it's telling people's stories.

[00:43:07] And so like photo and video, it's like as silly as it sounds, it's like, it's not Mike and I'll be all. And I had somebody say this, um, say this to me like two years ago. Um, and he's a photographer and videographer the traveled around them to help tell the stories of nonprofits and stuff like that around the world.

[00:43:26] And he said, right now, the best way to tell the stories of these different organizations is through photo and video, but that might change. And if that changes, then I'll change the medium. And in the end, his passion behind it was helping tell the stories of all these different things and the need to support and, um, and rally behind these different organizations.

[00:43:50] That's good. And I think that really inspired me because you can get so hung up on one medium as being the end all be all. And [00:44:00] in the end for, for me, photo and video is just the medium that I use from a business standpoint too, to convey those different things for businesses, brands, and organizations, and for myself as a business owner, like podcast is my, is really my only like marketing material that I have.

[00:44:18] Yeah. And that's helping tell my story as a creative, as a, you know, as they learn and develop my skill. This is just the medium that I've chosen because it's, it's, it's the thing that fits me the best right now. Yeah. Makes sense. So looking into the future, then what, what's a business that you're really interested in starting or working towards start?

[00:44:42] Um, this is something that I, I reached out. Last week to the, um, it's the Vaco or here in Austria. So as the VR trucks come on and, uh, what they are in charge of is like the it's the [00:45:00] economy chamber chamber of commerce. I think, I think that's the, that's the English version of it when you speak German so much.

[00:45:09] Yeah. But, um, what I had inquired about was starting a nonprofit where essentially I would be able to fundraise money to, to help, um, lower earning NGOs and individuals, uh, to help them tell their stories. What's an NGO for those of us who do not know none non-government organization. I think it is. It's a nonprofit that's charities.

[00:45:38] Okay. Thank you. Um, I think NGOs are technically like cross borders. I think I'm not even sure. That's why I just say non-profits usually. Um, but yeah, so the, the idea behind it is that I would be able to fundraise money to be able to essentially sponsor the production of the different things and then be the one that produces it.

[00:45:57] So in one way, it's, it's fundraising for [00:46:00] that kind of stuff, but then also paying myself through it. And I like, yeah, they, they sent me back an email and said, uh, yeah, you can't, you can't pay yourself through your NGO, which I, like, I knew it made sense. I just wanted the clarification because I'm gonna get that as a possibility then that's cool.

[00:46:18] Um, I think there's the, there's the, there's the caveat of, I could hire myself and have the salary through it, but even that is kind of like a, a gray area. So I have to look into it a little bit more, but that's something that I find really interesting is that even, even at the end of the day, if I, if I can't pay myself.

[00:46:40] For productions like that, what I can do is I can start in a nonprofit that will help cover the expenses for the production, excluding my salary. And so that would cover any, any gear or travel or crew other crew or anything like that. Um, and it would be then to essentially help those organizations tell their stories in a [00:47:00] very high quality way.

[00:47:01] Um, and something that's more than just, you know, the charity worker with their phone recording, you know, whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Because in the end it's like those, those are the organizations that are making some of the biggest differences in the world, but so many people don't know about it. Yeah. And when you, when you start partnering with, uh, with organizations like that, and you start realizing the value that they bring to the world, um, it really changes your perspective on.

[00:47:33] You know, passion and purpose behind creativity and what it is that you produce. And like, my favorite thing that I ever did was I went to Angola and helped, uh, uh, a nonprofit there. And that still sticks out to me as, as one of those key defining moments of a mental shift for me. I was wondering when you were going to bring it up, because in my mind that's when things [00:48:00] mostly changed for you when it came to storytelling and videography.

[00:48:04] Yeah. Angola. Cause I wasn't there, right? Yeah. Daniel's still a little bit bitter about that one by myself. That was great. I have yet to go anywhere in Africa. Yeah. In the end of it, it was a F it was a fantastic trip, but it taught me a lot about how, how I want to, um, move forward with. Creative work. And yeah, after that, I said like, you know, if I can't do anything else in the creative realm of stuff, but I just do that.

[00:48:41] Like, I would be happy, like helping tell their stories and, and figuring out the creative ways to do that. That really sucks out to me. Yeah. I love it. Good. Cool. What would it look like to you to be successful in that, in, in storytelling for like charities and organizations, [00:49:00] stuff like that? Um, yeah. I mean, the biggest thing for me would be that I can, I can figure out a way to, that I can fund my life so that I can do that.

[00:49:15] That sounds so awful. I know it sounds awful, but like, like in the end, if I, and this is what I told some people too, like when it comes to like my, my work as, as a, as a business owner, I'm like, if all that, that is for is to be. Make enough money so that I can do these other things on the side for free or for a really low cost or something like that, then, then that's worth it to me.

[00:49:39] Um, and so it's success to me is, yeah, like I said, like it's fun finding a way to be able to fund that in a way that is transparent. So not starting, not starting my own nonprofit that pays my salary. Cause apparently that's a no, no, I was really disappointed. I was hoping it was gonna work out. [00:50:00] Um, it's also harder here in Australia than it is in north America to start a nonprofit.

[00:50:06] Yeah. From your experience. Yeah. There's, there's a lot of, I mean, there's, there's so many different like categories of it. Um, and I think that's the, that's the biggest issue, but, um, Yeah, the easiest way is to start a fine. And through that, I am not able to distribute the income or the, the, the money that comes in from it to the members of it, which would then be me.

[00:50:34] Um, yeah. So I'm, I'm working on trying to figure out how to do this a little bit better. And, um, but yeah, in the end, if it's like, if I just have to like work my butt off and work for businesses and brands that can actually like more effectively afford it so that I can fund these other things, uh, that is, that is what I would be stoked about.[00:51:00] 

[00:51:00] We're figuring out a way to make a side income off of something like a podcast. So if you're an advertiser, that's looking for podcasts, we're lucky. No, it's yeah. I mean, in the end it's like, if, if, if I can have some sort of. Income on the side that can help fund that kind of stuff then I'd yeah, I'd be, I'd be stoked on that.

[00:51:24] True. Are you ready for some listener questions? Yeah. Cool. Let's get into that. What we call Yaffee you asked for, you asked for it. Okay. So one listener asked what constitutes creativity and can it be a learned skill? Yeah, I mean, creativity has so many different facets, I guess, or styles or ways that it can look.

[00:51:53] Uh, but in the end, it's, it's the, it's the ability to, well, it's the ability to create, [00:52:00] um, but it's the, the ability to, to express yourself through creating something. And I think that's kind of the key defining thing for me, at least as, as a creative person is how do I express myself and create something.

[00:52:17] That's new, whether that's different or that's, that's an, that's an expression of myself. Um, when it comes to, like you said, can it be learned? Can it be a learned skill? I think so. I think it absolutely can be because if you like, there's some people that have like a natural ability for it and then it comes very easily to them.

[00:52:37] Um, but then I think when it comes to like from a person to person basis, it is something that is, that can be learned and developed through different things and through different, you know, pursuits. I mean, if you are, if you are not enjoying your life and you were sitting in an office for 10 hours a day, Monday to Friday, and on the weekends, you just watch TV.

[00:52:59] [00:53:00] Like you're not going to feel very creative after that. It's like, and I mean, some people do that and they love it and that's fine. But, um, if you're, if you're wanting to develop creativity or if you're wanting to be a creative person, that is not what is going to. Move you forward. It's just like learning other things.

[00:53:19] It's like, it's like when you are learning a new skill or if you want to be a musician or something like that, like I took guitar lessons for two semesters in college because I loved music, but I also knew that I couldn't just pick up a guitar and play it right away. Like I had to, I had to learn how to do it.

[00:53:37] Um, and so in the, in the practice of it, you get better and better and better. And so you develop that creativity. I think the more kind of the more avenues that you go about being creative and expressing yourself the more and more, uh, success you'll find. And it just for your own personal sake, the more enjoyment that you'll, that you'll find out of it.

[00:53:57] And yeah, Ken [00:54:00] creative ideas be genuinely generated or is it in short the thought process of creatives and its juxtaposition to other types of temperaments or things. It's such a deep question, got some deep listeners I know full well who asked this too? Yeah, I think creative ideas in, in the way that I, that I take it in the way that I think about it is it does play a role in like imagination.

[00:54:33] Um, because usually when you are creating something, you think of at least some of it beforehand. Um, and so in that sense, it is imagined so generated like, uh, from, from a creative perspective, it's a hard question. What would you say? I think they can be genuinely generated [00:55:00] because I think that at the core, we're all creative people.

[00:55:05] We all have creative abilities and it may not be that, you know, your. Talented in music or you're talented in dance or art or things like that. But I think that there is a creativeness that comes in most things that we do. So for me, I'm more of a intellectual and I'm very logical and I have a hard time thinking of myself as a creative person, but when I get down to the core of it, even in writing papers and essays, I'm very creative in how I craft my words and I'm creative in how I get ideas across.

[00:55:45] And so I think that everyone has creativeness in them. And if we believe that creativeness is inherently in people, then the thought process needs to be genuinely [00:56:00] generated. Even if you don't feel like you're a creative person, there's still creativity to you. Yeah. I think we are. Created for creativity.

[00:56:11] Like we are like, it's part of our DNA as, as humans, as individuals. And yeah, like you said, it's part of who we are. And if we believe that then gads is a genuinely generated thing and it's just a, a process of self expression and, you know, learning and growing and continuously developing. Okay. Last question for you, Mike.

[00:56:41] Michael, how do I pick a niche? And what if I like doing a lot of things? You wrote this question to you? A hundred percent. Yeah, because I always had a hard time finding a niche, even when I started a blog those many years ago, [00:57:00] back when we both started to try and, oh, man, that was so much work. And then I still love that blog posts are like how to create passive income.

[00:57:09] One start a blog. No, no stop telling everyone to start a book. It's a challenge because you're, you're fighting against so many different, uh, so many different like information givers. So it's like, you were just amongst the noise. So how do you stand out amongst the noise? And you have to be, you have to be loud, you have to have purpose and you have to act like you have to have, you know, focus on it.

[00:57:38] It's not something that can just be like easily, you know, winged one, you can't just wing it. Like you have to have, if you want to make an income off of it. Um, but I love this question because this is something that, um, that I struggled with, something that Danielle's just knows that I struggled with because it was a constant conversation when I first got started, [00:58:00] is that.

[00:58:01] And this is something that I still believe is that if you want to be able to make a decent income as, as creative person, um, you have to figure out how to niche and be an expert in a certain thing. It's like, um, you know, for artists that, um, for creative artists, they, they almost all have their own unique style, their own unique, medium, um, their own unique way of expressing themselves.

[00:58:29] Everybody has their own style and their own unique thing. And when you become a specialist in that sense, in, in that, in that area, then you become, you become recognized for it. Um, but when it comes to the question of how do I pick a niche and what if you like a lot of things, a lot of it comes down to just trying different things and kind of evaluating, okay, you do one thing.

[00:58:51] Do I like that? Do we not like. It's kinda like concert photography for me. Like at first I thought that that's what I was going to do. Cause I loved music and I loved concerts [00:59:00] and I loved photographing at concerts and I felt like I did that well, but in the end I was like, okay, if I want to make, you know, a steady income off of this and something that I can enjoy and live off of, I don't know if this is the particular route that I, that I want to go.

[00:59:18] Um, people can do it and they do it successfully and they enjoy it. But, uh, I was like, okay, what part of the concert photography did I like? And that goes back to the whole capturing like moments of emotion. Um, it's like moments of emotion and meeting. And so then from there I was like, okay, like if that's my, if that's my thread that I'm kind of drawing through different stuff then okay.

[00:59:42] Let's try this kind of thing or that kind of thing. So I worked for, I worked for a couple of different businesses and what it was that they were doing. And then, yeah, just at this concert, Trying and assessing. And when you kind of do that for long enough, then you get to a point where now I'm like, okay, I [01:00:00] know what it is that I want to do and what I love and that stories.

[01:00:02] And that's, you know, depicting individuals that are inspiring people for something. And so if that means that it's for say a brand for a shoe company or something like that, that's the kind of content that I would want to produce. Um, and that's the kind of work that I would want to produce. And I think in that then, then yeah, you, you kind of start narrowing down that, that niche of our, as some people say it, the niche.

[01:00:27] Oh no, please. No. Yeah. The niche of, yeah. Being able to do that and do that effectively and do that well. Um, so yeah, it's, it's, it's a long process of just try trial. Temptation. I say temptation because it's like, it's not really error. It's trying different things. So like you're testing different things out and then you're like, oh, maybe, maybe I might be tempted in this kind of photography or that kind of photography, or maybe that business sphere, that business sphere.[01:01:00] 

[01:01:00] Yeah. In the end, you're, you're kind of tempted by them. And so you're just like, oh, let's try it out. Let's see. But it doesn't mean that you're, you're, you're committing 110% of your efforts into that one area. Um, you're trying to just figure out, okay, what are these different things that I actually enjoy?

[01:01:13] But the trick is to get started and just to try different things. And as you try and as you learn, and as you develop, you figure out what are you happy with learning? What are you happy with developing? What are you happy to be known for it to be recognized for as a creative, as, as an artist and in that process.

[01:01:31] And in that trajectory, you start finding your, your niche and your voice and your individuality in this creative. World that we live in with so many different things. So many people in that, then you find your niche and your, I, I call it purpose because like niche is just something that you're like, you know, that you're really good at or known for, but as a creative, then I think it's kind of like, it ends up becoming your purpose.

[01:01:58] And that for me, is [01:02:00] telling stories and enjoying that and figuring out creative ways, how to do that and the challenges that arise from that, um, for somebody else that might be completed something completely different. But yeah, that's my purpose and that's my, that's my passion behind, and that's why I want to do what I do.

[01:02:14] Cool. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. All right. Well, thank you, Danielle. Thank you for the. Thank you, Michael, for being a guest on my podcast, I should convince her to do her own podcast. I think that'd be really cool. I don't think I have the time. Not right now. Maybe, eventually, maybe, eventually I'll convince her Danielle's brain bite through something like yeah.

[01:02:37] Who knows, but thank you for the barrage of questions and the, uh, that's the right word, right? The bombardment, the, the attack of questions. One of those words, one of those words work. Um, but yeah, I appreciate it. And I appreciate that you took the time. To [01:03:00] help me be able to express myself and to ask these questions and, and to, to just be in a podcast episode again, you're, you're so far the only recurring guests that I've had.

[01:03:08] So, uh, it feel extra special. Yeah. Yes. But even up in the world, Yeah, all that being said and done. Thank you guys so much for listening and for being a part of this. Um, I just wanna encourage you if you, if you are listening and if this stuff does speak to you, if it does make a difference, if you do leave, uh, ratings and feedbacks on, on Spotify, on apple podcast and all kind of stuff.

[01:03:35] Um, and so the whole idea and the intent of this podcast is to get us out to as many years as possible, to be able to encourage and uplift and challenge and push forward and help people find their, their creative purpose and their creative passion. Um, so doing those little things do make a difference.

[01:03:51] So by all means, I encourage you guys, please do that. Um, it makes a difference for myself and for, for the show and in the end for, for everybody else that's out there [01:04:00] that is feeling like a clueless creative. But again, thank you guys for listening and we'll catch you in the next one. Well, that's all from us today on the clueless creative podcast.

[01:04:12] I'm your host, Mike Kvick, and I believe you deserve to thrive in your creative journey and that you don't have to settle and be another clueless. Creative doing this all alone. Let me know that you've listened to this episode by heading over to Instagram and shooting me a message at Mike Kvick, I would be thrilled to get to know you and hear about your creative journey.

[01:04:30] If you enjoyed listening, consider leaving me a review. It makes a huge difference. I hope you feel encouraged and empowered to take the next step in your personal creative journey. You're amazing. And you deserve to have a thriving, creative journey. So go be creative, inspire others and have fun.